Here is a video of Ernie Kurtz, academic historian on the subject of recovery, principally 12 step recovery, being interviewed by William White. They discuss shame and how 12 step recovery helps treat the shame that often drives addictive behaviour.
Below is also a link to Ernie Kurtz’s book on “Shame and Guilt” which is freely available online at Ernie Kurtz’s behest.
Kurtz is interesting in asserting that some of the 12 steps principally deal with guilt whereas others help deal with the ongoing struggle with shame.
Guilt seems to be about events and specific actions whereas shame is a process of healing, of coping with and challenging a negative self schema inherited from childhood and sometimes reinforced since then.
The Alcoholics Guide to Alcoholism 
I absolutely love this. 🙂
check out his buddy and collaborator on various projects too William L White – just click the link http://www.williamwhitepapers.com/
Wow, that is a very extensive website. Funny to find how much information is out there while a year ago I was struggling in the dark, thinking I was the only one. 🙂
it’s who you know! 🙂 addiction is the illness of an isolation that tells us we are alone and beyond help when there is lots of help out there for us if we want it. Connection with others in the same boat is the antidote to addiction.
Yeah, but, well I’m going to put it out here, hope you can help me. I had a friend, he is AA fan (yes, fan), currently 1,5 years clean and I was his guinney pig for the course on recovery counseling he was doing. He actually sat here glorifying his drinking days in a wink wink notch notch kind of way. That was awfull and I felt dirty, with a need to wash it away, with beer. I’m afraid if I go to a meeting I will meet people like that. And also people like the John Bradshaw, actually, my last reply to your post of yesterday is THE reason for me to not to dare to go to AA. 😦 This dynamic I have with know it all religious older man. Maybe I go find a womens meeting. 🙂
don’t worry about this – there are women’s meetings for sure especially if you live in a big city? I fully support this. I think early recovery should mainly be with your own gender. There are a few sick people in AA called dry drunks and they usually go to sick meetings, that is a simple reality – go first to where you feel safe and comfortable – recovery usually happens in a close relationship with a sponsor and by working the steps. Fellowship is not the end and be all by any means. There are meetings and people in AA I do not like and who I avoid – it is a human enterprise so it has idiots too – it is about being real and realistic. So go to a women only meeting – and get few telephone numbers from people there – most groups go for a coffee after the meeting etc it is low key and friendly normally. There is untreated alcoholism in AA just as outside AA – no one is forced to do the steps as they are simply recommended not enforced – so some people do not do the steps – after some time it is easy to see who has done the steps and works a spiritual program – the spirituality of AA is not religious it is about connection with others really, I know lots of atheists who have a good program of recovery. Talking about religion is frowned upon by AA members generally. Recovery is where I learn how to live and let live and not be absolutist about things. it gives your life perspective hearing others in the same boat as you and takes the distress away for me as I obsess about unimportant stuff. If you know people in AA perhaps you could go with them. The vast majority of people in AA are loving, kind and supportive and you will find this too. By helping others we help our self in recovery – this is the experience I have had – people really want to help others like them so give it a go – where you feel comfortable. x
Thanks Paul. 🙂 And… one last question: the helping others so we can help ourselves, I find that a dangerous position. Psychologically I would not advise anybody to put effort in helping another unless they’ve got their own ‘shit’ sorted out. Just to not transfer e.g. my own shame or misunderstandings, like I believe John Bradshaw did in that vid where he spoke forcefully and exposes all kinds of power issues. To me helping others when one is not ready is a recipe for disaster. Or?
it says in the Big Book that we cannot transmit something that we do not have – but we can share our stories, or our experience strength and hope, we can be kind to newcomers to meetings we can be friendly and helpful etc but you are right in that the person who helps you will be a sponsor who as I mentioned before will take you though the steps as they have been taken through the steps – as the 12 th step says “Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.” this is also a spiritual program not psychological -it is about loving and caring consideration to others – this is why it helps us help others even in small ways – it is about the heart not the head. Equally the spiritual solution can only be communicated by someone who has had a spiritual awakening – so look for a sponsor who has done the steps and who acts like they have – i..e they are kind and considerate of others.
🙂 Ok, spiritual versus psychologica. I think I need to meditate on that to be able to undersand it. But ok, kind and considerate. Got it. 🙂 Thanks Paul!
xx, Feeling
spirituality is demonstrated in kind action not in words. x
And thank you for the book tip. 🙂 Always happy with books 🙂
it’s a pdf link too 🙂
Yay!!!! 🙂
he wrote a great book on AA called “Not God” which I would strongly recommend too as it helped this overcomplicated intellectual type understand 12 step recovery much better 🙂
Ghegheghe… sounds like that would be something for me 🙂 Overcomplicated? Check! Intellectual? Well, living off my brain, check! God issues? Check!
You, no? 🙂 Fortunately God is a heart thing not a head thing and doesn’t even need to be defined? As my sponsor said to me let’s start by not acting in a God like manner and we will take it from there there…hence the title of this book. All that is required in to not have contempt prior to investigation…
Ghegheghe…. I think I’ll go see if I can find a sponsor when I’m a year in. I could use some structure. Would need to attend a meeting too though… Not there yet.
go to a mtg and you will find a room full of people like you but don’t’ let that put you off! lol 😉 seriously we recover with others like ourselves – it is the best thing I have ever done so would love you to give it a go one day obviously. It is not perfect but it is perfect enough to bring happiness where there was none.
Ghegheghe… cracked up on your first sentence, currently writing a post on my mechanics of self destruction. 🙂
Thank you for your wise words. I am guessing I am ready to receive them. 🙂
could be? I have been working on you long enough 😉 humour is also a great antidote to taking ourselves too seriously,
Ghegheghe, ‘working on you’, huh huh, so I did sense that right…
Well, it is well received, thank you. 🙂
xx, Feeling
lol! I carry a message of hope at all times lol x
🙂